News Magic Kingdom Permits Filed for Big Al's, Westward Ho, and Churro Cart Possible Demolition

[Charlie The Chatbox Ghost]

I can't really say I agree with you though when the attraction Tiana's replaced was also very much not set anywhere near the frontier (in fact, it's further away from it than New Orleans is), and yet it was never considered to be anything other than a Frontierland attraction.

MK’s Frontierland has always been kinda a mess. The Country Bears have always been from the “North Woods”, even back in 1971, the RoA was all over America, etc. I think it’s always just been a general “country vibes land” to people which is why Splash fit, given they made the music all country themed.

Maybe “Countryland” would be a better name?

 

[Charlie The Chatbox Ghost]

Big Al's and Westward Ho Disappear from Magic Kingdom Digital Map After Permits Filed for Demolition​

Big Al's and Westward Ho Disappear from Magic Kingdom Digital Map After Permits Filed for Demolition

Big Al's and Westward Ho Disappear from Magic Kingdom Digital Map After Permits Filed for Demolition

www.wdwmagic.com

Don’t the Country Bears have it bad enough as it is? No new merch for their new show, never mentioned alongside other classic attractions, never featured in nighttime shows or special events like other park originals… and now Big Al is losing his house? Why would Disney REMOVE things that make money??

 

[Charlie The Chatbox Ghost]

Big Al’s sold faux-coonskin caps and pop-guns. Naturally you have to remove anything that remotely resembles a gun in the park (see also the Gaston fountain concept art vs. final outcome), but also the fact that selling animal hide headwear might upset all those “Gritty the Rabbit” fans.

Haven't they not sold the pop-guns for years? Like, as far back as 2018 I remember it only selling hats and Minnie ears. I think some generic toys too, but no pop-guns. I really don't think this demolition is politically motivated, and demolishing an entire merch stand because of what is sold there is a more expensive solution than just changing the merch (which again, I haven't seen guns sold there in at least 8 years).

 

[TrainsOfDisney]

They were selling lincoln log style building sets when I was there - perfectly on theme and not controversial.

 

[AidenRodriguez731]

This. They have already redefined Frontierland from Walt Disney’s version. It is now a general “frontier,” not the American Frontier of the 19th century focused on the American pioneering spirit. A sad change but par for the course.

Got a question for you, when was it exactly the 19th century?

County Bear Jamboree (yes even the original) HAS TO canonically take places in the 1900s. Grizzly Hall was built in 1898 and Ursus Major who we do not see but we see his grandson take the mantle of the leader and a remembrance seeming plaque for him above the stage died in 1928. We know Henry took over AFTER his death. County Bear Jamboree almost certainly happens in 1928 or later... the exact same year as Tiana's

 

[AidenRodriguez731]

Haven't they not sold the pop-guns for years? Like, as far back as 2018 I remember it only selling hats and Minnie ears. I think some generic toys too, but no pop-guns. I really don't think this demolition is politically motivated, and demolishing an entire merch stand because of what is sold there is a more expensive solution than just changing the merch (which again, I haven't seen guns sold there in at least 8 years).

Isn't it so much easier to blame some mad up boogeyman that is "changing everything I love" than using actual common sense?

I mean of course it would make a lot of sense to change the merch stand over to give their 6th highest rated attraction more actual merch but.... instead we're just going to believe that they shut that down and had to tear it down because???

 

[TrainsOfDisney]

Got a question for you, when was it exactly the 19th century?

Original Frontierland was - I think it still is at Disneyland and DLP - unless I’m forgetting something.

MK had weird additions with Country Bears and Splash that mix up timelines. On opening day at MK the saloon was part of Liberty Square on the maps. So it’s always been a bit messy.

 

[AidenRodriguez731]

Original Frontierland was - I think it still is at Disneyland and DLP - unless I’m forgetting something.

MK had weird additions with Country Bears and Splash that mix up timelines. On opening day at MK the saloon was part of Liberty Square on the maps. So it’s always been a bit messy.

A lot of attractions MUST happen in the very last part of the century though. Big Thunder mountains hauntings iirc started to ramp up in the 1880/1890s. A few attractions also need to take place in the 1890s to really make sense so I would then say, if a bunch of beloved attractiosn already broke this mold. Why be so hesistant before the attraction even was out? I can only jump to one sad conclusion

 

[TrainsOfDisney]

Why be so hesistant before the attraction even was out? I can only jump to one sad conclusion

Are talking cars or Tiana here?

 

[Charlie The Chatbox Ghost]

Isn't it so much easier to blame some mad up boogeyman that is "changing everything I love" than using actual common sense?

I mean of course it would make a lot of sense to change the merch stand over to give their 6th highest rated attraction more actual merch but.... instead we're just going to believe that they shut that down and had to tear it down because???

Yeah exactly. There is a more logical reason they're removing Big Al's that we don't know, and that reason is 100% not "well this stand used to sell guns and coonskin hats, so it's bad and has to go". I still think removing a merch stand (and a food stand) makes zero sense for modern Disney, since they love monetizing every square inch of the park, but maybe they have replacements in mind when the new coast of that street is done. Maybe we'll get a bigger and better Big Al's since the street's gonna be wider, maybe even with a proper indoor setting. (Personally, I'd tear down the wall between the exit hallway and the Prairie Outpost and make a gift shop directly in the exit path of the show, so people have to walk through it to get back outside)

EDIT: Just refreshed myself with a POV video of the show, the exit hallway is not as long as I remember it being. I think it actually starts at the bottom corner of that triangle shape in my sketch, so a gift shop might cause some congestion for people just trying to get out- maybe extend the gift shop portion into that building between Prairie Outpost and Grizzly Hall? Is that even used for anything?

To that note- CBJ is the 6th most popular attraction in a park with 30+ attractions, and yet it has zero merchandise? How many kids walking out of that attraction would be super enticed by a plush of Trixie or Big Al? Maybe a toy replica of Ernest's fiddle that lights up red and plays smoke sound effects when you strum the strings? How many fans would love some new things to add to their collections instead of only having the same 20-50 year old merch to pick from? Plush, pins, cups, toys, accessories... so much you could make based on the new show. Sell copies of the tuba bear award from the queue, people would eat that up! Make a sipper version of Big Al's XXX jug that somehow survived to the new show!

I know I constantly talk about the new Country Bears show needing new merch here, but it's the WDW hill I will die on. We don't need 50 new Haunted Mansion items that will collect dust on shelves (or end up in a landfill) because people only pick one or two things when they visit, we need merch for popular attractions. Jungle Cruise could use some merch as well- they literally have a gift shop joke at the end of the ride, add a little stand by the exit.

 

[Mr. Sullivan]

MK’s Frontierland has always been kinda a mess. The Country Bears have always been from the “North Woods”, even back in 1971, the RoA was all over America, etc. I think it’s always just been a general “country vibes land” to people which is why Splash fit, given they made the music all country themed.

Maybe “Countryland” would be a better name?

You’re right. And this is why I’m flabberghasted why everyone is suddenly a stickler for the “rules” of Frontierland when MK’s has never followed it and always just kinds been vibes

 

[TrainsOfDisney]

You’re right. And this is why I’m flabberghasted why everyone is suddenly a stickler for the “rules” of Frontierland when MK’s has never followed it and always just kinds been vibes

It’s always been vintage or timeless vibes though. Modern day cars and national parks is a full departure from anything that’s happened inside of any Frontierland that I’m aware of.

 

[Mr. Sullivan]

It’s always been vintage or timeless vibes though. Modern day cars and national parks is a full departure from anything that’s happened inside of any Frontierland that I’m aware of.

I agree with you that it’s a diversion, but I can’t say I agree with you that the vibe has been timeless. It’s felt very long in the tooth and tired to me for a long, long time.

As I’ve said from day one, I’m not yet sold on Cars being the right solution to this. I like what I’ve seen of the Piston Peak design but I can’t make final judgements on whether it was the right shakeup until I see it.

But I do think a shakeup of SOME sort was needed. MK’s Frontierland gives me the same vibe as DL’s Tomorrowland: worn out and well past its expiration date. Now only time will tell of this injection of energy was the right one. I don’t know yet. I have some reservations, but I’ll not know until I’m there and seeing it.

 

[TrainsOfDisney]

MK’s Frontierland gives me the same vibe as DL’s Tomorrowland: worn out and well past its expiration date.

That’s a wild comparison-
What reminds you of the rotting people mover track, the closed 3d theatre, and the sad non-operating orbitron?

The closest comparison of shooting arcade being converted to DVC which is kinda what they did with carousel of progress but that buildings sticks out way more than the shooting arcade.

 

[MisterPenguin]

CBJ sung songs from the 1950s.

TBA had an older place setting.

 

[HauntedPirate]

Yeah exactly. There is a more logical reason they're removing Big Al's that we don't know, and that reason is 100% not "well this stand used to sell guns and coonskin hats, so it's bad and has to go". I still think removing a merch stand (and a food stand) makes zero sense for modern Disney, since they love monetizing every square inch of the park, but maybe they have replacements in mind when the new coast of that street is done. Maybe we'll get a bigger and better Big Al's since the street's gonna be wider, maybe even with a proper indoor setting. (Personally, I'd tear down the wall between the exit hallway and the Prairie Outpost and make a gift shop directly in the exit path of the show, so people have to walk through it to get back outside)
View attachment 910876
EDIT: Just refreshed myself with a POV video of the show, the exit hallway is not as long as I remember it being. I think it actually starts at the bottom corner of that triangle shape in my sketch, so a gift shop might cause some congestion for people just trying to get out- maybe extend the gift shop portion into that building between Prairie Outpost and Grizzly Hall? Is that even used for anything?

To that note- CBJ is the 6th most popular attraction in a park with 30+ attractions, and yet it has zero merchandise? How many kids walking out of that attraction would be super enticed by a plush of Trixie or Big Al? Maybe a toy replica of Ernest's fiddle that lights up red and plays smoke sound effects when you strum the strings? How many fans would love some new things to add to their collections instead of only having the same 20-50 year old merch to pick from? Plush, pins, cups, toys, accessories... so much you could make based on the new show. Sell copies of the tuba bear award from the queue, people would eat that up! Make a sipper version of Big Al's XXX jug that somehow survived to the new show!

I know I constantly talk about the new Country Bears show needing new merch here, but it's the WDW hill I will die on. We don't need 50 new Haunted Mansion items that will collect dust on shelves (or end up in a landfill) because people only pick one or two things when they visit, we need merch for popular attractions. Jungle Cruise could use some merch as well- they literally have a gift shop joke at the end of the ride, add a little stand by the exit.

Merch selection has been atrocious for a decade. They went homogenous through most gift shops and I agree - They need to reverse that decision ASAP.

 

[TrainsOfDisney]

There is a more logical reason they're removing Big Al's that we don't know

It’s right up against the boardwalk - that area will be part of the construction zone most likely.

 

[Charlie The Chatbox Ghost]

CBJ sung songs from the 1950s.

TBA had an older place setting.

While the original CBJ had songs from more modern times at the time of its opening, its design was always meant to emulate Vaudeville and country music of the early 1900s. Compare the original songs to their CBJ covers and you’ll see how different the instrumentation and style is, the CBJ sounds a lot more vintage despite being newer.

 

[Charlie The Chatbox Ghost]

It’s right up against the boardwalk - that area will be part of the construction zone most likely.

But why permanently close it? I guess it’s in a spot that’s in the way?

 

[AidenRodriguez731]

But why permanently close it? I guess it’s in a spot that’s in the way?

We don't know how this area will look. It's possible that they rebuild another similar stand here, it's possible that this area is extended out for more river. Lots of possibilities right now.