Disney (and others) at the Box Office - Current State of Affairs

[TP2000]

That's just a second hand rumor which you just announced as if it were the six o'clock news.

Knock it off.

I'm discussing things on.... wait for it... a discussion forum. We've been doing this for 30 years now.

Specifically, I was discussing this previous post about the Avatar franchise:

Then I followed it up with basic data and facts about the Box Office trajectory of the first 3 Avatar films:

Avatar 1, 2009: Production Budget $237 Million, Global Box Office $2.93 Billion = $1.169 Billion Profit
Avatar 2, 2022: Production Budget $400 Million, Global Box Office $2.32 Billion = $660 Million Profit
Avatar 3, 2025: Production Budget $400 Million, Global Box Office $1.48 Billion = $240 Million Profit

And there's two more Avatar movies in the pipeline with the same obscene $400 Million production budgets?

So I think it's no surprise that Disney is trying to reign in the obscene spending on two more Avatar movies with dwindling Box Office and pop-culture interest. They've got to get the remaining movies down to $200-ish production budgets.

And obviously rethink the decision to spend $500+ Million to build an Avatarland in Anaheim. Smart move!

You know, discussion about Box Office and Disney Parks on a Box Office thread on a Disney Parks discussion forum.

So no, I won't "knock it off". I'll continue to discuss this topic at my leisure. Or at least until it's time to head down to the beach club in half an hour to see if we can see the Artemis II splashdown off San Clemente Island.

 

[TP2000]

Some of the most successful and beloved franchises in movie history didn't translate to popular Halloween costumes. I don't remember ever seeing a Dr. Alan Grant, or a Katniss Everdeen, or a Frodo Baggins show up at my door.

I'm just not seeing how a $240 million profit, despite the large budget $$, plus a 90%+ audience rating on RT, and all the "best one in the series so far" comments for a 3rd film in a saga is a sign to pump the brakes. The Avatar ship is far from sinking.

Disney is after merchandise sales. Michael Eisner famously called it "Synergy", when that was a new corporate buzzword.

Disney greenlit a $600 Million (in 2009 dollars!) Cars Land not just because it had great characters and a story worth telling, but because they had been selling Billions (with a B) worth of merchandise to young boys for years based on the Cars franchise. It was about the merchandise sales, especially to a demographic (Boys and their Dads!) that had been elusive to Disney's girl heavy Princess and cutesy character franchises until Cars came along.

Disney: ‘Cars’ Has Crossed $8 Billion in Global Retail Sales

The Disney/Pixar franchise now brings in more than $2 billion in global retail sales annually, making it one of the company's biggest franchises.

www.hollywoodreporter.com

Yes, I famously joke about the lack of Avatar characters on my front porch every Halloween, but there's a legitimate point there. I think we can all agree that there is a comparative dearth of merchandise sales and lack of popular culture impact for Avatars three movies so far. Will that change with Avatar 4 and 5?

The Box Office trajectory is not pointing in the right direction.

Avatar 1, 2009: Production Budget $237 Million, Global Box Office $2.93 Billion = $1.169 Billion Profit
Avatar 2, 2022: Production Budget $400 Million, Global Box Office $2.32 Billion = $660 Million Profit
Avatar 3, 2025: Production Budget $400 Million, Global Box Office $1.48 Billion = $240 Million Profit

They didn't panic after spending $600 Million on Cars Land in 2011 when Cars 2 tanked at the Box Office. Because the Billion dollar merchandise sales just kept going along, as that Hollywood Reporter story from 2011 shows.

 

[TP2000]

How far are you from Vegas? Perhaps the Blue Man Group is monopolizing the blue paint market. There’s just no option for little boy Jake to dress up like big Navi Jake

I hadn't thought of that. It's a hair over 120 miles from my driveway to the porte cochere of Caesars Palace. When I set the Distronic at 82, I'm an easy hour and a half away, with an extra 10 minutes stroll to the Bacchanal Buffet hostess stand.

I think you may be on to something! Now...how to calibrate the TP2000 Pop Culture Meter by October!?!

Buy Tickets for Las Vegas

Looking for something fun to do in Las Vegas? Come to see the Blue Man Group at the Luxor Hotel and Casino! Use the theatre seating chart to choose your spot, and get the best tickets at the best price today!

www.blueman.com

 

[MisterPenguin]

So I think it's no surprise that Disney is trying to ... rethink the decision to spend $500+ Million to build an Avatarland in Anaheim. Smart move!

This is not a fact. It's a second-hand rumor and a supposition.

You just tried to pass it off as a fact... again... with a whole bunch of word salad.

It's not a smart move if it's not a move at all. Is it a move? We don't know. Neither do you. Stop trying to sell it as a fact.

Again, knock it off.

 

[Disney Irish]

And obviously rethink the decision to spend $500+ Million to build an Avatarland in Anaheim. Smart move!

If you actually have been following along instead of just regurgitating some clickbait headline, Disney just filed permits for the Backlot area to begin demo. So the current group consensus is Disney is moving forward with Avatar not rethinking it at this point.

 

[TP2000]

If you actually have been following along instead of just regurgitating some clickbait headline, Disney just filed permits for the Backlot area to begin demo. So the current group consensus is Disney is moving forward with Avatar not rethinking it at this point.

Judging by merchandise sales, seems like they aren't quite paying attention to pop culture enough.

I hope they don't make a mistake! Disneyland Resort already has as many rides as all of WDW, and will soon have even more. But there's only so much room to work with in Anaheim.

Might be best to save that land for an IP that sells a lot of toys and t-shirts? But what do I know?

 

[TP2000]

This is not a fact. It's a second-hand rumor and a supposition.

You just tried to pass it off as a fact... again... with a whole bunch of word salad.

No, I just tried to pass it off as discussion. On a discussion forum.

If you've got solid information from Burbank sources that the The Wrap story is false, let's hear it.

It's not a smart move if it's not a move at all. Is it a move? We don't know. Neither do you. Stop trying to sell it as a fact. Again, knock it off.

Should I be running all my potential discussion on this discussion board through you? Do you want me to just Direct Message you my posts in advance, or should we set up an email thing?

How will this vetting and pre-approval of my thoughts and opinions by way of discussion through you work, exactly?

 

[Pizza Moon]

 

[MisterPenguin]

Writers Guild Reveals Details of Four-Year Deal: A $321M Health Plan Infusion, Higher Residuals and AI Licensing Language

The tentative contract also raises minimum payments by a cumulative 10.5 percent and sweetens the union’s streaming success bonus.

www.hollywoodreporter.com

Paramount Seals, Refines Debt Financing As It Moves Towards WBD Deal

Paramount completed the syndication of its bridge facility and entered into permanent financing transactions with lenders ahead of its WBD merger.

deadline.com

 

[Animaniac93-98]

Hoppers up to $157 million domestically, $354 million worldwide

Where it now ranks along all Pixar releases domestically since 2020

Inside Out 2: $652 million
Hoppers: $157 million
Elemental: $154 million
Lightyear: $118 million
Elio: $72 million
Onward: $61 million**

**domestic run cut short

Coco was the last original Pixar movie to make over $200 million domestically ($210 million) unadjusted

 

[BrianLo]

And obviously rethink the decision to spend $500+ Million to build an Avatarland in Anaheim. Smart move!

There is pretty good evidence that Avatar land in DAK is responsible for billions of dollars over this past near-decade. There was a sustained 3-4 million attendance bump to DAK alone for a number of years. Far more than Star Wars or even Cars land achieved! They’ve been selling through Lightening lane single pass for years. It’s still the most well received land at all of WDW. Then of course it does have very well received food and even (anemic) merch.

I do think that also factors, much as Cars merch sales mattered.

Edit - I should reiterate it’s not just the most successful land at DAK, it’s the most successful land at all of WDW. It remains the most well reviewed land still today (above Galaxies Edge) and since the cloned Galaxies Edge is Disneyland resorts currently best reviewed, it speaks to how well received it is. This wasn’t just a DAK was in the pits type reception.

 

[CJR]

There is pretty good evidence that Avatar land in DAK is responsible for billions of dollars over this past near-decade. There was a sustained 3-4 million attendance bump to DAK alone for a number of years. Far more than Star Wars or even Cars land achieved! They’ve been selling through Lightening lane single pass for years. It’s still the most well received land at all of WDW. Then of course it does have very well received food and even (anemic) merch.

I do think that also factors, much as Cars merch sales mattered.

Edit - I should reiterate it’s not just the most successful land at DAK, it’s the most successful land at all of WDW. It remains the most well reviewed land still today (above Galaxies Edge) and since the cloned Galaxies Edge is Disneyland resorts currently best reviewed, it speaks to how well received it is. This wasn’t just a DAK was in the pits type reception.

100%, and imagine how much more long-term impact it'll bring when they eventually give it a third major ride. It'll be huge, even if the IP itself is struggling, and let's be real, it's still a major IP. Zootopia is arguably bigger at this point, but Avatar is still a very big and important IP.

 

[easyrowrdw]

For those who are interested, there is some Pandora speculation happening in another thread. The Wrap article and rumors (Avatar vs. Zootopia) posted here are also discussed.

Post in thread 'Is Phase 2 of Pandora: The World of Avatar ever coming to Animal Kingdom?'

Sunday at 12:16 AM

Whats the conflict? The Avatar IP still prints money like crazy

There are reports that Disney aren't happy with the results of the third movie. James Cameron himself also expressed concerns prior to its release that if the third one didn't meet Disney's expectations that it would be difficult convincing Disney to let him make 4 and 5.

While these movies are still "making money" by our math, modern mega media corporations such as Disney have wildly different standards and expectations for what they consider successful. These Avatar movies cost a ton to make. And each new entry has...

• MerlinTheGoat

• 

 

[TP2000]

Hiya gang, Box Office finals are out from this past weekend.

Hoppers fell to 5th place, and is now at $355 Million globally; about $20 Million away from breaking even now.

The Numbers - Where Data and the Movie Business Meet

The Numbers provides detailed movie financial analysis, including box office, DVD and Blu-ray sales reports, and release schedules.

www.the-numbers.com

 

[Disney Irish]

For those who are interested, there is some Pandora speculation happening in another thread. The Wrap article and rumors (Avatar vs. Zootopia) posted here are also discussed.

Post in thread 'Is Phase 2 of Pandora: The World of Avatar ever coming to Animal Kingdom?'

Sunday at 12:16 AM

Whats the conflict? The Avatar IP still prints money like crazy

There are reports that Disney aren't happy with the results of the third movie. James Cameron himself also expressed concerns prior to its release that if the third one didn't meet Disney's expectations that it would be difficult convincing Disney to let him make 4 and 5.

While these movies are still "making money" by our math, modern mega media corporations such as Disney have wildly different standards and expectations for what they consider successful. These Avatar movies cost a ton to make. And each new entry has...

• MerlinTheGoat

• 

And for those following along, article just came out in the OC Register that confirms Avatar is 100% coming to DCA, ie the Wrap article got it wrong.

Disneyland files confidential demolition permits for Avatar land

The Monsters Inc. dark ride in Disney California Adventure will remain open until 2027.

www.ocregister.com

 

[Pizza Moon]

Prob way over estimate, but the fact we’re even having these conversations is wild.

 

[Pizza Moon]

And for those following along, article just came out in the OC Register that confirms Avatar is 100% coming to DCA, ie the Wrap article got it wrong.

Disneyland files confidential demolition permits for Avatar land

The Monsters Inc. dark ride in Disney California Adventure will remain open until 2027.

www.ocregister.com

Jim Shill and WDWMagic speculation was the only source of this rumor.

It was ALWAYS BS.

That said, they definitely are looking to add Zootopia to Disneyland at some point, but there’s no world they’re going to abandon Shanghai Pirates and god tier theming for what is a downgrade if it comes down to either/or.

Fire and Ash made about as much as Zootopia 2 domestically, and Avatar and Cars just work in theme parks really well, which is a reason to build them beyond just “IP.”

We’re getting Indiana Jones instead of Zootopia at AK for that reason.

Disney isn’t spitting in our faces in the American parks like they have at Disney Adventure World.