The Imagineering Movie Discussion Thread

[Mr. Sullivan]

I know everyone and their mother has a preference for Raiders of the Lost Ark but I watched Last Crusade again tonight and I am confidently saying that it’s the best Indy film and I’m willing to fight over this

 

[PerGron]

I know everyone and their mother has a preference for Raiders of the Lost Ark but I watched Last Crusade again tonight and I am confidently saying that it’s the best Indy film and I’m willing to fight over this

You’ll get no pushback from me because you’re correct

 

[TheOriginalTiki]

I'm a Temple of Doom man myself Yes Willie Scott is awful, but Short Round is THE greatest Indy sidekick in the whole series and I really love how messed up and dark the movie gets (in spite of some obviously questionable cultural stuff). Literally every frame of Raiders is so carved into pop culture osmosis that I'm sick of it and Crusade is just a little too light and fluffy for my tastes. I realize it's objectively the most uneven of the three, but for me it's also far and away the most fascinating and rewatchable.

 

[Mr. Sullivan]

I'm a Temple of Doom man myself Yes Willie Scott is awful, but Short Round is THE greatest Indy sidekick in the whole series and I really love how messed up and dark the movie gets (in spite of some obviously questionable cultural stuff). Literally every frame of Raiders is so carved into pop culture osmosis that I'm sick of it and Crusade is just a little too light and fluffy for my tastes. I realize it's objectively the most uneven of the three, but for me it's also far and away the most fascinating and rewatchable.

I support any pick really. I’m a Last Crusade adult but Temple was my favorite as a kid for sure. It is uneven but it’s also a very thrilling roller coaster of a film and I think it’s high points overall make it’s low points digestible.

I quite controversially in my film circles do not hate any of the 5, I just like Crystal Skull and Dial of Destiny a LOT less than the OG 3.

 

[Mr. Sullivan]

You’ll get no pushback from me because you’re correct

It’s a film that to me sort of defines a lot of what there is to love about Spielberg, Lucas, and Ford as creatives. It is not the best film that the any of the three of them have made when looking at their careers as a whole, but it is I think the best distillation of what they’re really, really good at put into one film.

 

[JokersWild]

Raiders is my favorite. Last Crusade has a lot of my favorite moments, but I think Raiders is the best film. Temple of Doom never did anything for me, but it’s grown on me recently.

I’m a pretty ardent defender of Dial of Destiny. I really like what it’s trying to do. It’s not very successful at that, but it’s an interesting deconstruction of the character and concept of a legacy sequel. I just wish it had more Sallah and a less sudden ending.

If you haven’t already give a play through Great Circle a watch. It’s the Indy game that came out last year and is genuinely the best Indiana Jones story since Last Crusade. It might have been my favorite game of last year, but I’m very biased.

 

[Outbound]

I go back and forth between Raiders and Crusade. Or, my favorite is whichever I saw most recently, so rn it’s Crusade.

On average I think Raiders is the stronger film, it has a more consistent tone and focused story. But the highs of Crusade are something else, it has the strongest heart, love how it subverts the formula with Elsa, and after that intense Berlin scene, the quest for the grail feels like a real war of good vs evil.

Then there’s a lot of silly moments, all of which are great jokes but can cut away some tension. I love seeing Sallah and Brody again, but I wish they weren’t as clueless without Indy. And while fun the more I think about young Indy the less it makes sense.

But once they enter the grail temple, it’s absolute cinema. Them riding off into the sunset is the perfect ending, one of the best endings ever imo.

-

Really not a fan of Dial. I’ll know it’s bias but I don’t like seeing Indy out of his time / in a legacy sequel, part of the appeal for me is the pulp and timelessness. Crystal Skull isn’t the best, but it didn’t feel as depressing. Never liked Mutt but Indy shouldn’t have had to go through that imo.

Temple is pretty good (aside from that scene). Not on Raiders and Crusade’s level but I like that it tries something different, Willie is Willie lol, but Short Round is the best!

 

[TheOriginalTiki]

Re: Dial, I honestly think a few things would have elevated that movie significantly for me
-Sallah being along for the ride (he gets written out for virtually no good reason)
-I'm sorry, I know she got a lot of hate from the toxic side of the "film bro" community, but the Phoebe Waller Bridge character is in steep competition with Willie Scott as the most unlikable Indy sidekick in the series
-Short Round at least making a quick cameo
-The story beat of Mutt dying in the war actually being explored a bit more
-And most importantly (ending spoilers just in case)

Spoiler

Had the writers let Indy stay in ancient Rome. Him becoming a literal part of history would have been such a cool, poetic, and genuinely unexpected way to wrap up the arc of a movie character who had truly become larger than life. But I guess yet another awkward reunion with Marion is cool too...

On the positive side, I really freaking ADORE the random Magical Mystery Tour needle drop towards the beginning.

 

[JokersWild]

Re: Dial, I honestly think a few things would have elevated that movie significantly for me
-Sallah being along for the ride (he gets written out for virtually no good reason)
-I'm sorry, I know she got a lot of hate from the toxic side of the "film bro" community, but the Phoebe Waller Bridge character is in steep competition with Willie Scott as the most unlikable Indy sidekick in the series
-Short Round at least making a quick cameo
-The story beat of Mutt dying in the war actually being explored a bit more
-And most importantly (ending spoilers just in case)

Spoiler

Had the writers let Indy stay in ancient Rome. Him becoming a literal part of history would have been such a cool, poetic, and genuinely unexpected way to wrap up the arc of a movie character who had truly become larger than life. But I guess yet another awkward reunion with Marion is cool too...

On the positive side, I really freaking ADORE the random Magical Mystery Tour needle drop towards the beginning.

I strongly disagree with your point about the ending. I love the idea of him wanting that, but I think it’d be a disservice to the character. Letting him resign himself to being out of time and not needed in the world anymore would be such a wet fart of an ending. And it’d kind of be proving the Nazis right? That going back in time is the answer.

At least him reconnecting with Marion, while old hat, has some sort of poeticism to it in that he does have people who care about him and need him. I certainly think it’d could have been done better, but I’d be lying if I said that I didn’t get emotional when Marion’s theme started playing.

I think the biggest problem is that it doesn’t feel like a send off. It feels like one of those weird old man Batman comics or an old man fanfic where nothing really changes with the status quo, they’re just presenting the character as an old man and not fully committing to it.

 

[Outbound]

Wasn’t going to get into it but the can of worms was opened…

Spoiler: dial ending

Sorry but I HATE Indy’s behavior in Ancient Greece. Not only does time travel literally happening jump the shark - before, the artifacts were always “less is more”, which made them feel like so much more - Indy acts so childish and out of character in choosing to say behind. I get he’s depressed and this isn’t his finest moment, but with Luke or Han, their deconstructions end with their characters at their strongest (trying to save Ben, embracing the Jedi).

Instead Indy just gives up. First, Indy never felt like the character to do this, he was always pretty dismissive of the artifacts / history before realizing their power (exception being the Grail, but that was more to growing up under his dad’s obsession).

Then instead of realizing he’s in the wrong, he’s forced back against his will… this is the same character who realizes he has to look away from the Arc, or who gave up the Grail realizing there are more important things.

Indy wanting to stay, but willingly turning back knowing he can’t live in the past would’ve been up there with those moments. Even with my other criticisms of Dial I can at least understand why they were made, for the life of me, I cannot rationalize why they turned the emotional cathartics of the film and final decision of the series into… a gag?

 

[Mr. Sullivan]

I rank Dial of Destiny as 4/5 in my ranking, but that said I do overall like the film. I cannot agree with the third act criticisms in here though as I think the third act is by far the strongest part of the film. It's an interesting new direction for the character that I think reflects the reality of who someone like Indiana Jones would be in his old age. I love character deconstruction and evolution, and while I can see why one may feel it was out of character, I actually find it to be very believable for how an elderly Indiana Jones would act.