• The new WDWMAGIC iOS app is here!
    Stay up to date with the latest Disney news, photos, and discussions right from your iPhone. The app is free to download and gives you quick access to news articles, forums, photo galleries, park hours, weather and Lightning Lane pricing. Learn More
  • Welcome to the WDWMAGIC.COM Forums!
    Please take a look around, and feel free to sign up and join the community.

New Tomorrowland @ Disneyland? Is this the year it finally gets announced? No, and that’s OK

Distorian

Well-Known Member
Not a fan of 80's malls, but I guess if you are, then rock out with that food court band.
I mean, yeah, I am.

1980's mall are the embodiment of American cultural and economic supremacy that exhibit intense optimism about the future. That's exactly the aesthetic fit for Tomorrowland at Disneyland, USA. We are no longer an optimistic people because the path we've been put on has a negative trajectory. In order to go forward, we must go back.
1776039842266.png
 

Professortango1

Well-Known Member
Rocket Rods as an IDEA was interesting, in execution it sucked because it was budget cut to hell. Just because it had the same views doesn't mean much when the constant stop and starts took away from the experience and ultimately lead to its downfall. Sorry but your nostalgia for it just doesn't line up with reality. PM lasted for almost 30 years compared to RRs 2. That in itself should show that the reality doesn't line up with your nostalgia for RR. Just like many things during that era had they done what was promised it would be different, but they didn't so reality doesn't agree with you.

As for the rest, the overall land doesn't equal to "good" just because some parts were seen as better than what was there prior. I know that many thought that Capt EO was superior to HISTA as an example.
I'm talking guest in the park experience, not hindsight. Rocket Rods was a more fun attraction. The queue of people who lined up for it bolsters that fact. It was obviously impacted by budget cuts. The set dressing in the tunnels wasn't great. But it wasn't great before either. That's my point. The track remained the same. The unthemed passages remained mostly the same or slightly dressed up. The speed and seating arrangement are all that changed for the rider. The speed made the ride more fun to experience. The seating arrangement was more thrilling as well. Especially when the cars would pop a wheelie.

And....no corny Tron Tunnel.

As the target demographic in 98, I'm telling you that TL 98 was a major improvement to the guest experience. Now, 10 years later....
 

Distorian

Well-Known Member
I'm talking guest in the park experience, not hindsight. Rocket Rods was a more fun attraction. The queue of people who lined up for it bolsters that fact. It was obviously impacted by budget cuts. The set dressing in the tunnels wasn't great. But it wasn't great before either. That's my point. The track remained the same. The unthemed passages remained mostly the same or slightly dressed up. The speed and seating arrangement are all that changed for the rider. The speed made the ride more fun to experience. The seating arrangement was more thrilling as well. Especially when the cars would pop a wheelie.

And....no corny Tron Tunnel.

As the target demographic in 98, I'm telling you that TL 98 was a major improvement to the guest experience. Now, 10 years later....
If we're using wait times as a metric of success, seems important to include the hourly capacity.

People Mover had an hourly capacity of 4,800 people.

Rocket Rods had an hourly capacity of 1,200 people, and that's when it was actually running.
 

Disney Irish

Premium Member
I'm talking guest in the park experience, not hindsight. Rocket Rods was a more fun attraction. The queue of people who lined up for it bolsters that fact. It was obviously impacted by budget cuts. The set dressing in the tunnels wasn't great. But it wasn't great before either. That's my point. The track remained the same. The unthemed passages remained mostly the same or slightly dressed up. The speed and seating arrangement are all that changed for the rider. The speed made the ride more fun to experience. The seating arrangement was more thrilling as well. Especially when the cars would pop a wheelie.

And....no corny Tron Tunnel.

As the target demographic in 98, I'm telling you that TL 98 was a major improvement to the guest experience. Now, 10 years later....
We have to look at the whole picture though not through the lens and vacuum of nostalgia you have for it. It sucked in reality BECAUSE it was budget cut. This lead to the stop/start jerky experience of the attraction which was never intended, which lead to guest dissatisfaction due to not having the actual “thrill”, which also lead to the overall attraction becoming unsafe because of the columns taking on too much stress which lead to its closure.

Sorry but that isn’t an improvement over PM.

You’ll never convince me that TL98 as implemented was “better” than what was there prior.
 

Professortango1

Well-Known Member
I mean, yeah, I am.

1980's mall are the embodiment of American cultural and economic supremacy that exhibit intense optimism about the future. That's exactly the aesthetic fit for Tomorrowland at Disneyland, USA. We are no longer an optimistic people because the path we've been put on has a negative trajectory. In order to go forward, we must go back.
View attachment 916728
If only TL had that much color and design. Instead, we got these malls...
4316402251_1fdee00a43_b.jpg
SBB.jpg
7193yufyt4d31.jpg
'
Disneyland giving me Orange Julius stand vibes isn't inspiring me about the future, it just feels like boring liminal spaces I walk through with regularity.
 

Distorian

Well-Known Member
If only TL had that much color and design. Instead, we got these malls... View attachment 916729View attachment 916730View attachment 916731'
Disneyland giving me Orange Julius stand vibes isn't inspiring me about the future, it just feels like boring liminal spaces I walk through with regularity.
Again, these are awesome. I wish I had lived in this America. All I got was the dying end of this era.

You have no idea how much seeing photos of this America radicalizes me.
 

Professortango1

Well-Known Member
If we're using wait times as a metric of success, seems important to include the hourly capacity.

People Mover had an hourly capacity of 4,800 people.

Rocket Rods had an hourly capacity of 1,200 people, and that's when it was actually running.
And yet drew queues that were well more than 4 times the wait PM received. It was a more attractive attraction to the general public. It's simply a fact.
 

Professortango1

Well-Known Member
Again, these are awesome. I wish I had lived in this America. All I got was the dying end of this era.

You have no idea how much seeing photos of this America radicalizes me.
You can go to the mall in Riverside. Or Glenora. Or Moreno Valley. They all have the same sad old TL vibe. Still look like this, just nobody in them. Like 90's TL.
 

Distorian

Well-Known Member
And yet drew queues that were well more than 4 times the wait PM received. It was a more attractive attraction to the general public. It's simply a fact.
I don't think you understood my comment at all.
You can go to the mall in Riverside. Or Glenora. Or Moreno Valley. They all have the same sad old TL vibe. Still look like this, just nobody in them. Like 90's TL.
Do you think malls are no longer visited because they're aesthetically dated? Malls are dead primarily due to online shopping, not because of there's an excess of neon and palm trees.

Tango, usually I like your posts, but nothing you're saying right now lines up with reality.
 

Professortango1

Well-Known Member
We have to look at the whole picture though not through the lens and vacuum of nostalgia you have for it. It sucked in reality BECAUSE it was budget cut. This lead to the stop/start jerky experience of the attraction which was never intended, which lead to guest dissatisfaction due to not having the actual “thrill”, which also lead to the overall attraction becoming unsafe because of the columns taking on too much stress which lead to its closure.

Sorry but that isn’t an improvement over PM.

You’ll never convince me that TL98 as implemented was “better” than what was there prior.
I'm just speaking as a guest paying to visit the park. And TL 98 was certainly better than what it updated from a guest perspective. Freshly updated building facades that felt more dynamic. New lighting packages. Updated thrill version of old classic PM. FAR more modern 3D Film Theatre without problematic individuals. An OPEN Carousel Theatre rotating and featuring a new Animatronic that looked amazing. Autopia saw an improved queue and themed elements as well as car upgrades and a longer track. We also got some edutainment spaces about NASA, which now are empty vacant holes by Buzz Lightyear as well as the path to bypass the Buzz Giftshop.

As a guest buying a ticket in 1998, this was an improved experience. It was better than what was there a few years prior.
 

PiratesMansion

Well-Known Member
And yet drew queues that were well more than 4 times the wait PM received.
I mean, yes, but it seems disingenuous to note this without pointing out that the hourly capacity of Rocket Rods was, based on Distorian's numbers, 1/4 of the capacity for Peoplemover, in addition to Rocket Rods being much less reliable.

So of course the line was much longer, the ride could accommodate many fewer guests per hour! Line length isn't a straight reflection of popularity. Capacity and reliability play a huge role as well.
 

CoastalElite64

Well-Known Member
Do you think malls are no longer visited because they're aesthetically dated? Malls are dead primarily due to online shopping, not because of there's an excess of neon and palm trees.

Tango, usually I like your posts, but nothing you're saying right now lines up with reality.

Malls were in decline before online shopping became popular.

That only accelerated the decline.
 

Professortango1

Well-Known Member
I don't think you understood my comment at all.

Do you think malls are no longer visited because they're aesthetically dated? Malls are dead primarily due to online shopping, not because of there's an excess of neon and palm trees.

Tango, usually I like your posts, but nothing you're saying right now lines up with reality.
I never said the aesthetic of an old, dated mall led to them falling out of fashion, simply that theming an optimistic future to look like an old outdated currently existing aesthetic might not be the best way to go with theme.

Malls that looked like that were already feeling like a remnant of the 70's and 80's. Then to go to Disneyland and see their world of the future look like that same thing....It would be like designing a Tomorrowland that looks like an old Apple Store. It may have been an optimistic and original take in its day, but now it is way too familiar and reminds us of dying aspect of our civilization.

Rockwork, masonry, sculpture, metalwork....these are things that I love to see in architecture and design. When I travel, these are what inspire me. Seeing craftsmanship and ingenuity on displace. We see it all around Disneyland, but Tomorrowland always felt devoid of such craftsmanship. Hard, flat, sharp shapes painted flat white. Everything felt plastic and fake. Like a movie set from a Planet of the Apes sequel.

TL 98 was historically a miss, but at the time, I appreciated them going towards a future which felt hand-crafted rather than processed. It reminded me that everything that inspires was built by thought and ingenuity and that scales down to a personal level. I could actually do something like that. Flat amorphous stucco forms just felt cold and devoid of humanity. And a future that is devoid of human fingerprints isn't and never was inspiring to me.
 

Professortango1

Well-Known Member
I mean, yes, but it seems disingenuous to note this without pointing out that the hourly capacity of Rocket Rods was, based on Distorian's numbers, 1/4 of the capacity for Peoplemover, in addition to Rocket Rods being much less reliable.

So of course the line was much longer, the ride could accommodate many fewer guests per hour! Line length isn't a straight reflection of popularity. Capacity and reliability play a huge role as well.
True. But the ride was also more popular. PM wouldn't get a queue over 3 minutes. RR would draw queues that lasted up to 2 hours. You can't tell me that if they only sat 1/4 PM cars, the queue would ever be more than 15 minutes.

They took a C ticket and turned it into a D ticket. They executed it poorly due to funds, which is why the ride isn't still operating. But those things weren't things that impacted the guest riding it. It was just a more exciting version of what was there before.
 

Distorian

Well-Known Member
I never said the aesthetic of an old, dated mall led to them falling out of fashion, simply that theming an optimistic future to look like an old outdated currently existing aesthetic might not be the best way to go with theme.

Malls that looked like that were already feeling like a remnant of the 70's and 80's. Then to go to Disneyland and see their world of the future look like that same thing....It would be like designing a Tomorrowland that looks like an old Apple Store. It may have been an optimistic and original take in its day, but now it is way too familiar and reminds us of dying aspect of our civilization.

Rockwork, masonry, sculpture, metalwork....these are things that I love to see in architecture and design. When I travel, these are what inspire me. Seeing craftsmanship and ingenuity on displace. We see it all around Disneyland, but Tomorrowland always felt devoid of such craftsmanship. Hard, flat, sharp shapes painted flat white. Everything felt plastic and fake. Like a movie set from a Planet of the Apes sequel.

TL 98 was historically a miss, but at the time, I appreciated them going towards a future which felt hand-crafted rather than processed. It reminded me that everything that inspires was built by thought and ingenuity and that scales down to a personal level. I could actually do something like that. Flat amorphous stucco forms just felt cold and devoid of humanity. And a future that is devoid of human fingerprints isn't and never was inspiring to me.
This is fine, and I agree, but Tomorrowland '98 did not do that.

I would absolutely welcome a neoclassical Tomorrowland. Although it sounds backwards, neoclassicism is a timeless architectural style that projects strength and eternity, making it perfect for a land dedicated to the future.

The closest I can think of for something similar would be the Art Deco influence of the Alien Encounter concept art.
1776043020793.png
 

PiratesMansion

Well-Known Member
True. But the ride was also more popular. PM wouldn't get a queue over 3 minutes. RR would draw queues that lasted up to 2 hours. You can't tell me that if they only sat 1/4 PM cars, the queue would ever be more than 15 minutes.

They took a C ticket and turned it into a D ticket. They executed it poorly due to funds, which is why the ride isn't still operating. But those things weren't things that impacted the guest riding it. It was just a more exciting version of what was there before.
Another factor: we also didn't get to see the decline of Rocket Rods from a popularity perspective. The lines being long for the two-ish years it was around when it was the most heavily hyped new attraction aren't really an accomplishment; the same would be true of pretty much ANY new ride.

What would be a more meaningful comparison was if Rocket Rods had stuck around and we could have seen what the lines were like right now in 2026-because that would be the age of Peoplemover when it was removed; even then, though, you have to take the ride's capacity into account, because that remains relevant to the equation.

Much like I once told another poster, sure, on an average day, Space Mountain has the longest wait time, but that doesn't necessarily just mean it's the most popular ride. Pirates, among many other attractions, will accommodate many more riders per hour than Space, and it's not like you're just walking straight onto Pirates the whole day. Therefore, how can you say definitively that Space Mountain is the most popular attraction without taking hourly rider capacity into account? The same principle could-should-be applied to Rocket Rods as well.
 

Professortango1

Well-Known Member
This is fine, and I agree, but Tomorrowland '98 did not do that.
TL entry plaza with all of the rockwork and metalwork. The mosaics which harbored back to a less 70's aesthetic. The facade for Inoventions was a thing of tangible beauty compared to how it looked prior. Autopia's queue also featured more metalwork and detailed architecture.
 

CoastalElite64

Well-Known Member
Another factor: we also didn't get to see the decline of Rocket Rods from a popularity perspective. The lines being long for the two-ish years it was around when it was the most heavily hyped new attraction aren't really an accomplishment; the same would be true of pretty much ANY new ride.

What would be a more meaningful comparison was if Rocket Rods had stuck around and we could have seen what the lines were like right now in 2026-because that would be the age of Peoplemover when it was removed; even then, though, you have to take the ride's capacity into account, because that remains relevant to the equation.

Much like I once told another poster, sure, on an average day, Space Mountain has the longest wait time, but that doesn't necessarily just mean it's the most popular ride. Pirates, among many other attractions, will accommodate many more riders per hour than Space, and it's not like you're just walking straight onto Pirates the whole day. Therefore, how can you say definitively that Space Mountain is the most popular attraction without taking hourly rider capacity into account? The same principle could-should-be applied to Rocket Rods as well.

It doesn't exist anymore at Disneyland.

But they both do at Magic Kingdom and Pirates has much longer wait times. So there's that example at least.
 

Register on WDWMAGIC. This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.

Back
Top Bottom